Toni Collette has been through hell the past few years. Well, her characters have, at least.
Ever since her role as a grieving mother in Hereditary showcased sinister new depths to her talents, Collette hasn’t been able to catch a break. After being possessed by a demon and decapitating herself with a rusty piano wire in that film, she played a no-nonsense detective investigating a serial rapist in the Netflix series Unbelievable. She gets her arm sliced off in Velvet Buzzsaw, Bradley Cooper murders her husband in Nightmare Alley, and she’s pushed down the titular steps of The Staircase on HBO.
“I suppose you could say some of my recent stuff has been a little heavy,” Collette recently told Vogue. “I like being involved in all kinds of genres in terms of storytelling, but I had been thinking for a long time now about creating something purely joyful.”
Enter Mafia Mamma. The action-comedy follows Kristin, a forty-something writer in the American suburbs dealing with a sexist boss and an unfaithful husband. As Kristin’s life begins to unravel, a business associate of her estranged grandfather’s reaches out, requesting that she attend his funeral in Italy. Hoping to use the trip as an excuse to “Eat, Pray, Fuck” her way through Europe, Kristin’s journey toward self-fulfillment takes an unexpected turn when she discovers that her grandfather was the head of a powerful mafia empire. As his last living descendent, it’s her turn to become the new crime boss.
Mafia Mamma is exactly the kind of high-concept, mid-budget genre movie that everyone complains Hollywood doesn’t make anymore. It’s also an all-too-rare star vehicle for Collette, who always manages to run away with her movies, whether she’s billed first (Muriel’s Wedding) or seventh (Knives Out). Since breaking out in Muriel’s Wedding nearly three decades ago, Collette has carved out a singular resume, defined by her ability to transform; in the case of her role as a housewife with dissociative identity disorder on United States of Tara, that often meant playing anywhere from two to five different characters in the span of a single scene. For Mafia Mamma, Collette wanted to ensure that Kristin was just as fully realized.
“Reading it for the first time was the most joyous ride,” she says. “But I loved that at its core there was also this incredible story about a woman coming into her own sense of power and autonomy.”
Collette’s career has followed a similar track. After dozens of powerhouse performances, she continues to stretch herself professionally, recently wrapping production on Mickey 17, the first English-language film from Parasite auteur Bong Joon-ho, and looking ahead to shooting Juror #2, rumored to be director Clint Eastwood’s final film, this summer. With Mafia Mamma in theaters now, Collette called Vogue up to chat about shooting in Rome, producing her own material, and more.
Vogue: Your last few projects have been incredibly heavy—I’m thinking of The Staircase, Unbelievable, Hereditary, I’m Thinking of Ending Things. Were you looking for something lighter as a change of pace?
Toni Collette: It’s funny you say that because making something like The Staircase was actually a really amazing experience. It was certainly intense, and the sense of responsibility was slightly overwhelming at times since it was based on a true story. But the experience itself was not a heavy one. Our director Antoni Campos had the whole cast and crew over to his house every weekend and we’d cook up a storm and laugh for hours, so the genre doesn’t always necessarily reflect the feeling on set. Sometimes you can be making a comedy and have the absolute worst time, which I’ve certainly experienced. Everyone brings so much history to set and all of our experiences go into this mixing pot where you never know quite how it’s going to balance out in the end. But I’m telling you, everything about Mafia Mamma was magic.
How did this project enter your radar?
I’d worked with Amanda Sthers on a film in 2016 called Madame; she called me out of the blue saying she had a new script called Mafia Mamma that I could do what I wanted with: I could produce, I could direct, I could be in it. So I read it during COVID and it just made me laugh so much.
What about the character of Kristin appealed to you at this moment in your life and career?
I just think it’s an important story about a woman coming into her power without being in any way dogmatic. It’s done in the most fun possible way. I know if I connect with a script that quickly, I can only hope that others will laugh as much as I did making it.
What was your favorite part of shooting in Rome?
I would get up and walk around the city every morning right at dawn. No one was really out so I pretty much had all of Rome to myself, and every turn left me awestruck. When you’re confronted with that much beauty and history you can’t help but feel small. It kinda contextualizes your own life in a way. We got to shoot in these historic vineyards and beautiful old palazzos and have them all to ourselves. I made friends for life in that city, and I will always feel at home there now.
You’re so lauded for your dramatic work, but Mafia Mamma is such a great reminder of what a gifted comedic performer you are. Do you prefer working in one mode over another?
I really don’t mind either as long as there is some element of truth that I can cling onto and relate to. It’s that simple, because genre means nothing to me. And I’m certainly hamming it up in some of Mafia Mamma, but I’ve learned that if you play a scene straight the way it’s written, the comedy usually comes through the way it’s intended to. There were moments where I could’ve gone over-the-top and the movie would’ve felt very different, but I was always saying we had to keep it grounded.
I saw that you had an executive producer credit on Hereditary, but what can you tell me about your experience producing a project like this from the ground up?
Mafia Mamma is the first time I’ve actively produced anything. It’s been really satisfying being a part of a project at a much early stage and being aware of all those conversations that you’re not typically a part of. It was really eye-opening.
In what regard?
At one point there was feedback coming from some people who bought the movie and wanted to change the cut before releasing it in their territories. There were a lot of conversations around the violence, and there’s one particular scene they wanted us to remove. It wasn’t even gratuitous—my character is about to be raped and killed by the mafia and she’s literally fighting for her life. I said we cannot take it out because as soon as we do the mafia doesn’t feel real, and there’s no legitimate threat. She’s a fish out of water and this world needs to feel scary to her. I was in those meetings going, “What the fuck are you talking about? This is where my character finds her strength and fights back—we have to show it!” Everyone sorta capitulated in the end, but it was really confounding and frustrating to even have to point it out.
Especially for a scene that’s no more violent than anything else you can see in theaters. Two of the most popular franchises in America right now are Scream and John Wick.
If it was a guy doing that scene, I don’t think anyone would have batted an eyelid. It frustrated me that we can coexist with so much violence in cinema but when it comes to a narrative where you see a woman trying to defend herself, the violence is suddenly too much? Now you’re questioning it?
In terms of character prep, I’m curious if there’s there any piece of advice or training from your drama school days that you bring onto every set?
To be totally honest, it’s not something I often call upon. What I discovered at NIDA [the National Institute of Dramatic Arts in Sydney] was that I just don’t work that way. I’m really instinctive and just listen to my gut. Sometimes the technical work can be helpful but more often than not, I find it really frustrating because it gets in the way and takes you out of the moment when you’re ultimately trying to let go of everything and make a scene feel as alive as possible. I’m in no way technical, so the biggest lesson that stuck with me was to listen to myself.
Did you originally envision yourself as a stage actress, or was there always a desire to cross over into film?
I started in musical theater so it was very much about being onstage. The first time I ever performed was at school in the musical Godspell. I was 14 and felt like I had just discovered some new religion. It made me feel so alive to engage with my own emotions, because I was so shut down at that age. I had no real knowledge of myself and acting allowed me to investigate all these closed doors in my system. Now I know myself better and don’t need acting the same way I used to, which is probably healthier.
Was it a difficult decision, dropping out of drama school to do Uncle Vanya with the Sydney Theater Company?
When you’re at drama school they really make you feel like it’s the be-all and end-all, when ultimately you’re working towards building a career. NIDA was a three-year course and at the beginning of my second year I was offered the opportunity to work on that production with a director that I really admired. I was scared that I would leave for this one job and then nothing else would happen. My agent at the time said, “Well there is one film I’ve heard mumblings about but it’s not entirely financed yet…” I’d sorta forgotten about it but after finishing Uncle Vanya about a year later, I called her back up and said, “Hey, what happened to that film you were talking about?” She goes, “This is so spooky because the producers just contacted me saying they’re ready to go and wanna meet with you.” And that was for Muriel’s Wedding!
Did your life change overnight after the film came out?
Pretty much immediately. It was only my second film and suddenly I was traveling all over the world doing press. And it immediately opened up other opportunities and other doors for me. Everything seemed so far away in Australia; I grew up in a working-class family in the suburbs of Sydney watching musicals on TV. Then suddenly, overnight, I was nominated for a Golden Globe and having all kinds of pinch-me moments.
I interviewed the director of Romy & Michele’s High School Reunion last year and he said that you passed on the role that eventually went to Mira Sorvino. Can you talk me through the decision to turn down leading roles in big studio movies to do smaller ensemble pieces like Emma and Clockwatchers ?
I’ve only played 99% of the characters I’ve done because I immediately knew I could do it, I had to do it, and felt like I was meant to do it. I did pass on Romy & Michele because I just don’t think I quite got it. I didn’t think it was funny—and I know I’m wrong! But if I don’t click with a script to the point that I feel like I’ll die if I’m not a part of it, then I feel like it should be someone else’s opportunity. I knew I was crazy to pass because it was an amazing opportunity at such a young age when I hadn’t done very much. But I just knew it wasn’t right for me.
How would you characterize the types of roles you were being offered versus what you were interested in pursuing?
I remember reading some script in my manager’s office and thinking to myself, This is good, but it’s really similar to Muriel. And it wasn’t even consciously thinking that I needed to “stretch myself.” There was no plan like that, but it would have felt weird to do the same thing twice. I have unintentionally managed to create so much diversity in terms of the roles that I play. I somehow saved myself and created a path that I didn’t even realize I was laying down stones for.
How was your experience doing The Wild Party on Broadway?
It was everything that I dreamed of doing as a teenager. I mean, I got to live in New York and be the lead in a Broadway musical for fuck’s sake! It was also a new piece so it was exciting to work on something that was constantly evolving up until opening night.
Do you have any memorable Eartha Kitt stories?
Every single night with her was memorable. It’s a one-act musical that’s only about 90 minutes long. I was onstage pretty much the entire time but I had one break that was about 14 minutes. Because Eartha’s dressing room was the only one on the same level as the stage, instead of going all the way upstairs to mine and then all the way back down, I just went and sat with her during every show. We would eat hard-boiled eggs and just chat about all kinds of stuff. She was extremely grounded and normal for someone so glamorous.
I never got to see the show but a friend of mine did and said that he vividly remembers her doing full-out fan kicks at one point!
She was a force of nature. She had one number where she sang “So you think the party’s gonna last forever” [in “When It Ends”] while standing in the middle of the stage. She was so stoic and pushing these words out from the bottom of her gut. It was so fucking powerful.
Would you ever do another musical role—on stage or screen?
I’m totally open to it. I don’t know why it hasn’t happened but it’s not for lack of trying or wanting. I’ve come close to a few and it hasn’t happened, but it would be interesting to give it another crack.
The closest we’ve gotten to a Toni Collette musical since is Connie & Carla!
Listen, I loved playing a drag queen.
What was it like working with all those local queens while filming in Canada?
The queens in Canada were such a welcoming community and created such a positive atmosphere on set. There’s a lot of hanging around on shoots, so as much as we were onstage and performing, there was also a lot of giggling and goofing around. I think that they were all just relieved to be able to do what they do in such an elevated way that felt celebratory. It really was such an honor to be a part of it. They even gave me my own drag name!
Which was?
[Clears throat] Matilda Towelette. One day they all just came up and told me that’s what they had decided. It was their gift to me.
You really are a gifted drag performer—your face is already so expressive but your make-up in the film dials everything up to an 11.
I’m not even exaggerating when I tell you that for months afterwards I could not draw my lip-liner any smaller than I wear it in the movie. I got so used to having these massive lips that it took a really long time to come back down to reality. All that garish make-up somehow suited my face because it just opened everything up. I loved it!
One thing that I noticed going through your filmography is that it’s almost entirely made up of original IP. Even when you do a studio film, they tend to be projects like Mafia Mamma or Knives Out versus a superhero movie. Do you have any particularly strong feelings about attaching yourself to a massive franchise like Marvel if the opportunity presents itself?
I mean never say never, right? When I say I never had a plan for my career, I really never had a plan. I still don’t! I’m just open to what life wants to feed me. I really will consider anything because you just never know what’s right and what’s good for your soul at any given moment. I have no biases or discrimination when it comes to the scripts that come my way.
You also just worked with Bong Joon-ho on the forthcoming Mickey 17. What can you tell me about that experience?
I still cannot believe I got to work with Bong Joon-ho. I have admired him for so long that when I got the call he wanted to talk to me, I just about exploded. Within the first five minutes he said, “Toni, I’ve been watching you a long time. I love your work and we’ve both been doing this for a while so I’m gonna be straightforward here—I want you to be in my movie. I really wanna work with you.”
I have goosebumps!
I started crying, I swear to God. My face felt like it was gonna explode; I could not stop smiling for days on end. And then to go on and work with him? He is the most beautiful person, so kind and endlessly creative. He collaborates in a way that is unlike anyone else I’ve ever worked with. He is where he is today because he’s such a beautiful soul. I will never forget working with him on that film, and I honestly don’t feel like it’s the end of us. I’ll work with him again and again if he gives me the opportunity. I feel incredibly bonded to him.
I know you can’t spoil too much since the movie is still a year away, but what made the experience so distinct?
Well for one thing, by the time Mark Ruffalo and I arrived on set, they had already shot a portion of the film and were able to show it to us. Being able to see the film before entering into it was really enlightening because I was able to clearly access what the tone was.
How would you describe it?
You can’t really define it. It’s funny without trying to be funny, it’s really deep and sensitive, but also totally crazy. It’s pure Bong Joon-ho. It was also very intimidating because if I was watching it like any other movie, I’d be thinking, Wow I would love to be a part of something like this. And then I had a moment where I realized, holy shit, I am a part of it and I have to be on set tomorrow. It was the most surreal experience to watch the film and then become a part of it.
What excites you about this next phase of your career?
I’d love to take a stab at directing. During COVID I co-adapted a Lily King novel called Writers & Lovers with a writer that I worked with on a show called Wanderlust. I’m gonna produce it with Susannah Grant from Unbelievable, so hopefully that’ll come together within the next year or so. But I’ll never stop acting. It makes me feel alive, which I’m so grateful for because I know so many actors who work and work but don’t even seem to really enjoy the job. I feel like I made some good choices and have somehow had these incredible opportunities that keep feeding my life in positive ways. I couldn’t have dreamt up a career like this.