With The Batman arriving on 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray on Tuesday, May 24, I recently got to speak with Production Designer James Chinlund about working with director Matt Reeves on the incredible film. During the interview, Chinlund talked about how the new Batmobile was their way into designing the entire film, the lack of green screen and how much was done in camera, how they built the entire film in VR so Reeves and cinematographer Greig Fraser could figure everything out in advance, why he loved the set they built for the Riddler, and why they used Liverpool for their version of Gotham Square in the opening of the film. Additionally, he talked about why The Batman sequel will hopefully be easier to design because they have a foundation, and how a secret train station under the Waldorf Astoria led to him figuring out how to design Wayne Tower and the new Batcave.

If you’re a fan of The Batman, you’ll learn a lot about how the film was made. Check it out below.

The Batman stars Robert Pattinson (Bruce Wayne / Batman), Zoë Kravitz (Selina Kyle / Catwoman) Colin Farrell as Oswald Cobblepot/The Penguin, Paul Dano as the Riddler, John Turturro as Carmine Falcone, Jeffrey Wright as police commissioner James Gordon, Peter Sarsgaard as Gotham D.A. Gil Colson, Jayme Lawson as mayoral candidate Bella Reál, and Andy Serkis as Alfred Pennyworth.

COLLIDER: So I want to start with congratulations. I love this movie and your work on it.

JAMES CHINLUND: Thank you.

I love the Gotham City in this movie. Can you talk about the genesis back when you were first talking to Matt about what he's looking for and what you wanted to put on screen?

CHINLUND: I think we knew that while we were thrilled to be involved in The Batman, we were also both sort of looking at each other, like where's the space? I mean, there are so many iterations of Gotham that have come before us and they're all so amazing. How would we deliver something that felt new and a place to the world that we hadn't explored before, but also felt like true to the comic? I think it was quite intimidating, but that's where Matt's genius comes in.

I think he had an amazing, fresh take on Bruce that the idea that he had sort of turned his back on Wayne Industries and was on his own as a lone wolf. For me, that was sort of the key. And from there we could start work on the car and understanding how one guy would build a car without the support of this big military industrial machine and go from there. That was really the loose thread that we pulled on that revealed the design of the film.

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Image via Warner Bros Pictures

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So you literally started with the Batmobile?

CHINLUND: That was the way in. Absolutely. I mean, I think there were no pages. It was so early that we were just sort of pulling ideas and talking about the layer of the city and Matt had a small beat sheet, just thinking about Bruce and who was this guy. And so we were, as a designer, it's an incredible privilege to be in that early and to be able to stir it up with him and show him images and share ideas and sort of think about space together. But the car really, we knew there had to be a car. So it was something we could get going on.

From your perspective on the making of the movie, what do you think Batman fans would be surprised to learn in terms of the behind the scenes in your area of expertise?

CHINLUND: I think that Rob Pattinson is an incredibly nice guy. Damn, what a gentleman and what a hard worker. He just brought it every day. So on that level, I think he deserves the cape. He worked so hard, so that's one thing. I think on the design side, I think just that the car actually did its thing. To me, one of the things I'm most proud of is not only did we design a car, but we built a car that actually did all those jumps and burnouts and spin outs and everything you see, there was very little CG enhancement or any of that sort of thing, mostly there just for safety and things like that. So I think we're all so used to seeing CG wizardry. I think this car actually did it and I hope the fans feel that.

Absolutely. You've been doing production design for, I believe 20 years now, and you've been in the industry even longer. You mentioned CGI, how has production design changed with the modern CGI that is now available to you? For example, are you building a lot less and then using way more CGI extensions and people don't realize it?

CHINLUND: I think for me, we built huge sets on The Batman. We use very little green screen. Everything you see is largely in camera. And I think for me, as a designer, we're on the edge, the verge of this tipping point where in the past, we've designed, and we can illustrate, and they'll put up a green screen and the film wraps, then the designer goes away and then the post-production comes in, and they fill in the blanks. You hope at the premiere that it looks like what you want. And for me now, more and more, we're going to be seeing designers who can actually see their vision come to life on the LED Volume and technology like that. So there are no questions.

We'll leave the film with the work completed much as production designers in the past did before CG. So you'd have a painted backdrop or a miniature or something like that. It was all in-camera. The tools are getting faster and faster and cheaper and cheaper and giving designers more and more control so that we can actually design the film. There are no question marks when we leave, it's all there.

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Image via Warner Bros.

How much did you end up building that didn't end up in the movie?

CHINLUND: Very little. We built the entire film in VR, so all the sets were digital space that Matt and Greig Fraser could go into and lens and camera in. So we used all of it and those tools really allowed us to be incredibly specific and efficient about what we built and what we didn't, because Matt was seeing it all in storyboarding the whole thing in VR space. So very, very little.

I also really love the new Batcave. Can you talk about the collaboration with Matt on that specific set? Is it daunting when you're looking at all these other Batcaves?

CHINLUND: It really is. Well, and for me, it went the car and then where does Bruce live? I just hated the iteration of Bruce Wayne as a suburban rich guy who came into the city to do his crime fighting and then would go back to the suburbs. It just drove me crazy. So, I was excited that Matt and I kind of latched onto this idea of him in the tower in the center of the city. Matt was really inspired by some of Hearst castle and the idea this reclusive millionaire. It really opened up this huge door of design and ornament and all these fun things to play with, but also situating him in the center of the city. What would that mean for the Batcave? And if we're doing a grounded take, it's not like some big, weird cavern under the city, it's more like what would actually be there that he could use.

I had heard this story about this secret train station under the Waldorf Astoria, where they kept a train for the president in the event that there was some nuclear attack or something, and they could whisk him out of town. And I always thought that was such a romantic idea. So it latched onto that as the foundation, the idea that the Wayne’s had a private station under the Wayne Tower that they could get in and out without being noticed. So that was really the basis of the space. And then also being able to continue the development, letting people see Bruce as a gearhead, the idea of the car up on jacks and all his tech. So we got to touch on the familiar things, a lot of screens, a lot of technology, but we got to tell that story in a way that was much more physical and visceral and grounded, hopefully.

If you could keep one of the sets that you guys built, so fans could go visit, and you think they'd be like, "Oh my God," which set would it be and why?

CHINLUND: I think the Batcave was just packed with detail and that is a really fun set to visit because the car lives there, so you get to see a lot of cool stuff, the Bat Bike and all that. But I think if you're a real fan of the film, I think walking through the Riddler's and sort of going through all of his ledgers and looking at all the clues and unpacking all the stuff…The Riddler's is really like a museum to the madness of the Riddler, and it's really the roadmap for the entire film.

So you can see, hopefully as you walk through, all of the crimes. We had a station where he was building the cards and the neck bomb build and the rat cage build and all that. It was so layered and there's just so much to explore in there the camera could never capture it. So I think that'd be a fun one.

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Image via WB

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I can't imagine how much time it took to build that set because when they're filming in there in the third act, you could see the level of detail. Which location ended up being the biggest pain to build?

CHINLUND: I would say Gotham Square in the opening sequence, that was an enormous challenge. Matt wanted Times Square, but he wanted our own Times Square, and he wanted to be huge and real and full of people. So that's what led us to Liverpool. That was a huge Google Earth search. I was looking all over the world for big squares and I found this amazing spot in Liverpool, Wellington Square, and it seemed like it could work. So it brought us up there, but then COVID and all that. So not only were we trying to deliver this huge world where we installed all these screens and did this big thing, but then we had to make it work with a crowd of 50 people or something. It was tough. I would say that work, that work was really challenging.

I love the shot of Batman going through Gotham. I love that sequence because it does feel like it's exactly what you guys set out to make. It is New York City, but Gotham City. It's that perfect mix of Times Square, but something different.

CHINLUND: I'm glad it worked for you. Liverpool's an amazing place. And all of England gave us a little piece of patina and thread that I think really... It's like the spice in the soup.

But if you could keep, in your backyard, some of the things that you built from this movie, what would you keep and why?

CHINLUND: Well, I'd like to have a house with all the lamps we made, because I don't know if you know, but over the pool table in Falcone's, the chandeliers from Wayne Tower, I mean, working with the set decoration team, we actually fabricated some of the most amazing lighting fixtures. In City Hall. I don't know if you remember, but these beautiful things…so we were at the end, we were saying we were going to open a store called lamps that hurt, because they all had spikes and sharp things on them. So we'll see, keep your eyes peeled, restoration hardware, lamps that hurt.

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Image via Warner Bros.

You also put Arkham Asylum in the movie. Can you talk a little bit about that design? Also, I believe Matt has said he envisioned this as more than one movie and how he has a long-term plan. How does that factor in as a production designer?

CHINLUND: Honestly, I didn't let that in. I think for me it was like, we were just so focused on giving everything we had to the project. For me, it's really the only long term plan was I got to make this world feel so real and so rich that people are going to want to explore it more. I think the fact that so much detail was lost in the shadows is only to our benefit in the fact that people are going to be like, "Gosh, I wish I could see what was around that corner, in behind that door." And so I'm hopeful that that's going to lead us into the next one.

I love that stuff and that I also love how methodical the shots are and how slow they are, and it pulls you into this world. What was it like for you on set, watching Matt work and seeing this vision that he was bringing to life?

CHINLUND: Well, as you said, he's incredibly precise. There were iterations that we did in VR and leading in so by the time we got to set, he was so locked in that it was really just the performance. I will be honest with you, it was incredibly tedious. At that point, the work of the designer is done and it's really a stage for the actors and the work was really between Matt and the actors. We had planned so precisely that I think it was not my space at that point. It was really a stage for them to do their thing. So watching him grind it out and watching Rob and Zoe and everybody do their thing, it was so exciting to me to see it turned over to them and really see them take advantage of it.

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Image via WB

I can ask this question because Matt and Warner Brothers have announced it, but do you think that it will be easier for you, assuming you're working on the sequel, to design for the sequel? Is it easier once you've done it the first time? Because I know you did both Apes movies.

CHINLUND: I would say it is. I think now we have a foundation, I think we've set some pins in the map. Before it was sort of like this big amorphous darkness, and now we know where we are. So I think expanding the edges, similar to Apes. In Dawn, we developed the civilization and in War we expanded upon it. I think hopefully, Batman 2 will be able to do the same and keep exploring the world.

You obviously are a Batman fan. Is there something that you have been whispering to Matt? We should really do this if we get to make another one?

CHINLUND: Matt is so far ahead of me on that stuff. All I can tell you is that I'm just looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

The Batman is now streaming on HBO and is available on 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray on Tuesday, May 24.